- can’t belive I’m gonna take the time to do this because it won’t make a difference but here goes....try and keep up with the clear logic please it’s not that difficult
This ones for you @TN24
•3 more rings
BEEN DISCUSSED 1,000 times it’s a team sport Rings aren’t all that matters...MJ had better teams vs lesser competition in all 6 of those championships, that’s indefensible and Lebron has played in more Finals than MJ!
•3 more final mvps
THE WINNER GETS THE MVP VOTE EVERY TIME, LEBRON WAS THE MVP IN 7/8 FINALS HE JUST WASNT CHOSEN CAUSE HIS TEAM LOST ( see Iguodalas MVP trophy for clear proof of that )
•1 more DPOY
I’ll concede this one
•1 more season MVP
Joke of an award, MJ and Lebron should win basically every year they have played
•9 more scoring titles
—Easy to do when you take more shots!
How many times has he beat Lebron in Assists and Rebounding for a season....Points are not the only thing that matters especially when you take more shots to do it
•3 more steals leader
—How many times has he had more Assists or rebounds in a season than Lebron?
•3 more all defensive team selections
I’ll concede this one
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer.
ACTUALLY IT TOOK LEBRON 120 less shots to pass MJ in total Playoff Points....do some research!
•800 more steals
—How many more blocks than Lebron? Steals aren’t the only defensive impact
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
Jordan’s average team wins per season in those years were higher than Lebron, MJ had better teams overall
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals
——-MJ has never averaged a Triple Double in the Finals with 30+ PPG to boot, MJ has never lead all players from both teams in PPG, Rebounds, and Assists in the finals
( this is the single greatest feat ever in the Finals )
Lebron did it twice
See previous point
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
Ridiculously pointless, it’s a team game and his teams were better overall that’s been proven numerous times, this stat distinctly ignores all his early playoff exits and first round defeats, Lebron has the exact same winning % in the playoffs as MJ
•Lebron had much more offensive help, example:
Jordan never had a teammate average more than 22 points in the finals.. In fact, Mj is Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
——This is false, Pippen averaged 22 PPG twice, and it also ignores how great Pippen was, you know the guy that finished 3rd in the MVP voting thenyear MJ left....that guy!
* In the Bulls’ 1997 playoff run, Scottie Pippen averaged 19 points per game on 42% shooting. All other teammates of Jordan averaged under 8 points per game
——-How good was that team defensively in 97? They didn’t need scorers they were a slow it down team that played great defense...the same team that beat Miami in game 2 of the ECF when MJ Shot 26% from the floor and only had 3 assists or the same team that won game 5 by 13 when MJ went 11-31 from the field with 5 assists and 4 turnovers, that’s the garbage team your referencing?
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26
When he had Kyrie average 28 he was playing the possibly the best team in history in the warriors
DWade and Pippen are basically a break even as a 2 man for any star, wade was a better scorer Pippen was better at everything else and most of those years they were facing the Spurs Dynasty with 3 hall of famers and a Hall of Fame Coach....
MJ never faced teams that good in his title winning years
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs
——MJ NEVER beat a 73 win team on the road in a Game 7 averaging 38 PPG the final 3 games and leading all players in Points, Assists, Rebounds
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
Already been proven, took Lebron 120 less shots to pass MJ in playoff scoring
MJ accomplished all of this in 13 seasons
——Not sure how this matters considering my previous points about most of what you chose to list out
Lebron after his 14th season, is still chasing the “ghost (GOAT) that played in Chicago”
—-He chasing him in some peoples mind, others believe he’s already passed him...
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg.
THIS IS SUPER IMPRESSIVE until you consider the following these are total playoff stats not series totals where you only have 3 games sometimes lol:
2009: 35 PPG, 9Rbs, 7 Assists for 14 games
2015: 30 PPG, 11Rbs, 8.5 Assists for 20 games
2017: 33 PPG, 9Rebs, 8 Assists ( 56% FG ) 18 games
2018: 33 PPG, 9 and 9 ( 54% FG ) 13 and counting
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics.
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line.
—-not only has he come close, I just gave you 3 examples where he beat it lol, keep them coming though this is fun!
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this.
——you’re right he hasn’t done that, what he has done is average more than 51% 7 times and MJ has only done it 6 and Lebron averaged 54.3 over 4 consecutive years ( MJ never did that) and greater than 51% 7 times in an 8 year span ( MJ of course never did that either )
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%.
——MJ was a better FT shooter, Lebron has the better true shooting % when you take FGs, 3s, and FTs all together
•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
———-This must be old data because Lebron is now at 48.9% so keep them coming please!
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3.
——-Lebron is closing this gap because he is now at 28.2 ( get up to date facts please ) Lebron dominates win share measures over Jordan which calculates your contribution to total wins along with your teammates contributions....
MJs average per year in the playoffs 3.0
Lebrons average 3.7
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
—-this is accurate for now, will be surprised if Lebron doesn’t pass him based on his last few years.
•LeBron James has scored 30 points, 416 times in 1,117 games.
Michael Jordan did it 562 times in 1,072 games.
——Easiest logic ever, MJ always took more shots ( he averaged 20% more FGs per game )
Jordan won 6 championships without losing a final in 1,072 games and LeBron in 1,117 games has lost 5 times and has only won 3 times (updated 2018)
——-Total team stat so this has been discussed already
•MJ also shocked the league by being the first (and only) player to have 100 blocks and 200 steals in the same season, then turned around and did it again the next year..
——two great seasons in those categories, get back to me on Rebounds and Assists cause those matter too
•Mj also has more career blocks (893) than Lebron James (853) despite playing in 22 LESS career games and being the smaller guy.
——-MJ Played significantly less athletic talent at the guard/SF position in his day vs what Lebron sees now. This is still a solid stat for MJ, but I bring you back to Rebounds and Assists for Lebron
Also, MJ averaged 1.6 blocks per game in the 1987-88 season which is absolutely bonkers for a 6’6″ shooting guard.
——-Rebounds and Assists, Lebron has averaged 9 assists per game the last two years which is crazy for a guy his size
Seriously this list can keep going. This isn’t even a debate. Mj is the GOAT.
———-It’s obviously a debate now considering the new information applied
41.0 vs. Phoenix Suns, 1993 NBA Finals
———You’re right this is more impressive than leading all players in a series in PPG, Assists, Rebounds and Block while averaging 30 PPG
•Only rookie in NBA history to lead his team in four statistics (1984–85)
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring, win Most Valuable Player, and Defensive Player of the Year in the same season (1987–88)
•Only player in history to average at least 30pts 6reb 5assists And 2 steals per game AND HE DID IT 7 TIMES.
————31, 7, 6, 1.6
30, 8, 7, 1.8
29.7, 9, 7, 1.6
Lebron averaged so many more Rebs and Assists but you’re right, that .3 steals per game is Super Important!
•Only player in NBA history to win Rookie of the Year (1984–85), Defensive Player of the Year (1987–88), NBA MVP (1987–88, 1990–91, 1991–92, 1995–96, 1997–98), All-Star MVP (1988, 1996, 1998), and Finals MVP (1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998)
——-Lebron has all those except Defensive MVP.
•Only player in NBA history to lead the league in scoring and win the NBA championship MORE THAN ONCE in the same season
- this has been addressed multiple times already
* He did this SIX TIMES!! (1990–91, 1991–92, 1992–93, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1997–98)
•One of two players in NBA history to score 3,000 points in a season: 3,041 points scored in 82 games played (37.1 ppg) (1986–87)
——the man shot 28 times per game that year lol I mean come on
•MJ is also the only player in NBA history to score over 40 points at age 40, and he did it twice!
——TBD in this one, let’s see if Lebron plays til 40
